[GlockNewb]

Hey all, I'm sure this topic has been beat to death, but it's an important one to many.

Please review full thread and comment
http://glock.pro/showthread.php/1171-expanding-vs-fragmenting

Bearing in mind that much of this thread if not all is about 10mm rounds, not 380 or 9mm...

Thanks WAY much

GN

 

[rowemesp]

I've been a LEO for almost 30 years. . .I've never been issued anything other than law-enforcement grade jacketed hollow-points, which is what I have in my personal carry G27. In my opinion it's a good all around solution. . .will penetrate most clothing well enough as well as windshields most of the time, and if they work as advertised they'll do some damage to flesh and put a threat down.

I think you're over-thinking the liability of a shot somehow escaping your house. If you have to fire your SD gun in your house, then something very bad is happening and you're reacting to it--personal liability should be the last thing on your mind if you want to survive. Believe me, the bad guy always has a plan (not always a good or wise plan, but he has one). . .you have to have a plan ready to interupt his plan. . . .worrying about liability at that point will get you hurt. I'm not insinuating that you should "shoot first and ask questions later" because every situation is different and the perceived threat level is dependant on many, many factors. You'll have to articulate these things to the cops / court system at some point so have a clear knowledge (in advance) of when you're gonna point your gun at another person and squeeze one off. . .I hope no one on this board ever has to use a gun in SD, but believe me your life will change in an instant if you ever have to. . . the good thing is that you'll (hopefully) be above the grass to defend your use of deadly force. . . .just my two cents.

---Rob

 

[GlockNewb]

Thanks to sfguard:
Finding a happy middle ground is difficult to do. There are sights out there dedicated to testing ammo. Here is a link to one. If you haven't been there yet go check out different results for yourself. I know they have tested Extreme Shock and others.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

pistolcompetitor:
Hi slowdraw--

Welcome to the forum. I've been researching this as well since I live in an apartment complex. My own 0.02 is that the expanding rounds such as hollow points would reduce the chances of over-penetration. Frangible rounds, which I think are the same as the fragmenting rounds you're mentioning, concern me a little because they run the risk of under penetration, leading to a less-than-lethal strike.

tedg95:
Penetration and bullet placement over any "magic" bullet configuration. My favorite defense load was one of my own.... 230 grain Hornady FMJ conical over as much Unique I could pack in the case without blowing out the primer. I wanted through and through penetration. Two holes, no waiting.

230therapy:
(too much to post )

coop:
(again, much info to think about)

and Don:
i never use fragmenting ammo as it's very inconsistent. even at 10mm velocities it often only penetrates only 6-7 inches. either that or it doesn't fragment at all and performs more like a FMJ bullet.

sfguard's box o' truth link is a good example of this. i was actually offered a few boxes of that extreme shock crap for free by a relative recently, and turned it down. obscenely expensive garbage is all it is lol

for home defense, if you're concerned about excessive penetration, there's plenty of low power 10mm from the major ammo makers that's not too far off 40cal. federal personal defense 10mm comes to mind.

i actually have full power 10mm in my G29, but it's not my first go to gun for home defense, and my neighbors aren't that close

when i get my CCW and carry my G29, i will still keep full power loads in it.

**For all this great and valuable info! Can't say it enough guys, your experience and insight is good and it's wonderfull that you share it! As I'm sure this question is asked alot, can we make this a sticky? Something like "Considerations of residential personal defense ammo"? And if I've missed anyone that contributed here, forgive me and thank you!

 

[GlockNewb]

And thanks to SlowDraw for posting this original question. It's generated lots of good comments from all!


GN

 

[USAntigoon]

rowemesp Very well defined response..

 

[GlockNewb]

rowemesp Very well defined response..

Yes, in my hurry to get the previous typed (dinner in calling lol) I definately missed honarable mention for rowemesp. An excellent response. Thank you! And forgive me for not getting you in my original thanks list!

 

[jetflyer88]

Been in LE for 23 years and have personally seen the effects of actual shootings. Alot of variables so I will focus on the very popular self defense round of the 9mm. Our department has a policy banning us from using any of the personal/home defense type rounds designed to fragment or "explode" as quoted in our policy manual. Also, I'm not a advocate of this round for the house, that round for that, etc.. I keep my G19 loaded with our department issued round, the 127gr 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+. If I was not a LEO I would load up with the 115gr +P+ 9mm by Corbon. I think that round is a good all around personal defense round. I did see an incident where the Corbon failed to penetrate the doors of a vehicle. In that same incident the 124gr 9mm +P+ Federal Hydra-Shok did penetrate the doors. But most non-law enforcement personal defense scenarios don't involve shoooting through vehicles. However, I'm not an expert on this subject and agree with the post that some become too concerned with liability. More important to have a basic plan and save your life and the lives of others around you first.

 

[GlockNewb]

The for the addition jetflyer! For me, I never really thought much about home defense until I moved to Phoenix. But all this info reminds of of one thing. Training. Good training involves thought and repetition. the more we hear it the better. And like with anything, two people can see the same thing and decribe it differently. Multiple views, multiple opinions, repetition. All very useful.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread!

GN