[EdF702]

Are there pertinent legal or liability issue regarding trigger modification? I've been reading the thread about the lighter "ghost' trigger modification, which sounds like it would be an improvement that I would like. But, it's not worth a potential problem. I'm not looking for "legal" advise, just information.

 

[Glocky]

A good shoot is a good shoot. Thats my take on it. I have a Glock 3.5(4.5) in my EDC G26.

 

[EdF702]

Also, what about safety... obviously lighter pull easier fire, but what about drops and other Glock built in safety features... Are they negatively affected by off the shelf trigger products like Ghost etc?

 

[Don Glock]

1911's been used for almost a century for LE/military/personal defense. nothing has a shorter, lighter trigger pull than those. ever heard of someone ending up in jail from a legitimate self defense shoot with a 1911?

 

[VolGrad]

Also, what about safety... obviously lighter pull easier fire, but what about drops and other Glock built in safety features... Are they negatively affected by off the shelf trigger products like Ghost etc?

Swapping out connectors to lighten or smooth out trigger pull doesn't affect the safety features of a GLOCK. Now, if you start to grind on a connector or other trigger parts to modify them you could potentially disable them. I don't recommend ever getting a Dremel around your gun unless you are a very experienced gunsmith. More 1911 issues are caused by a hack with a Dremel than any other thing ... I suspect. GLOCKs ... some folks polish parts and that's not really a big deal if you don't actually remove material. I still don't do it though. I just don't find it necessary.

 

[jlw]

The most important factor in a defensive shooting is justification. If you meant to shoot somebody and were justified, modifications shouldn't matter.

On the flip side, if you negligently shoot somebody and you have made such modifications to the firearm, the manufacture can argue that the modifications let them off the hook as far as any product liability is concerned.

 

[EdF702]

One downside to the internet can be "paralysis by analysis"... There is so much "information" now available, it sometimes requires help to sort the wheat from the chaff... What started my line of thought was some info on Ghost's website to the effect that "this can be used for home / self defense".... Then a trip to the always "reliable" You Tube shows a "modified for target only" G17 that basically just has a 3.5# trigger kit and the poster goes on and on about the "potential legal issues of having a modified handgun for self defense"...

The modification seems like a worthwhile thing to try. Most of my poor shots are low left, and while cycling the trigger certainly helps, a lighter smoother and possibly shorter trigger pull would probably improve my accuracy. I just didn't want to cause any unwanted "complications" although the chance of me being in a "sticky" situation are possible, but pretty remote.

Thanks for your insights... now which kit to get....

 

[jlw]

One downside to the internet can be "paralysis by analysis"... There is so much "information" now available, it sometimes requires help to sort the wheat from the chaff... What started my line of thought was some info on Ghost's website to the effect that "this can be used for home / self defense".... Then a trip to the always "reliable" You Tube shows a "modified for target only" G17 that basically just has a 3.5# trigger kit and the poster goes on and on about the "potential legal issues of having a modified handgun for self defense"...

The modification seems like a worthwhile thing to try. Most of my poor shots are low left, and while cycling the trigger certainly helps, a lighter smoother and possibly shorter trigger pull would probably improve my accuracy. I just didn't want to cause any unwanted "complications" although the chance of me being in a "sticky" situation are possible, but pretty remote.

Thanks for your insights... now which kit to get....

Mas Ayoob pushes the theory that modification leads to liability. However, as I posted above, a modified handgun won't turn an otherwise justified shoot into a bad one.

 

[Glocky]

I know I am more accurate with the lighter trigger. In a self defense situation, I believe accuracy aka shot placement ability is paramount.

 

[jlw]

I know I am more accurate with the lighter trigger. In a self defense situation, I believe accuracy aka shot placement ability is paramount.

Accuracy on the range and accuracy under stress are two entirely different things. Under stress, you won't be able to tell the difference between 5.5lb standard trigger and the 4.5lb trigger obtained with the minus connector.

 

[EdF702]

Accuracy on the range and accuracy under stress are two entirely different things. Under stress, you won't be able to tell the difference between 5.5lb standard trigger and the 4.5lb trigger obtained with the minus connector.

I'm sure that's true... Adrenaline is a powerful force! I'm really more of a "range ranger" and I really like to tinker with fine mechanical things. I just was curious regarding the potential legal concerns. I'm a strong believer in personal accountability, and if altering the trigger had potential issues, I would want to know more for re-sell or trade. It seems no big deal to do, and what can be done can be undone.

 

[TheLaw]

It be very quick and easy to replace the stock connector, or even better, to replace the entire trigger kit if you bought one from one of our sponsors.

 

[coop]

I also think a good shoot, is a good shoot, but the problem is what will a lawyer think, a lawyer who wants you in jail or your money, or a jury of 12?
In my CHL class, the talk was replacement with factory parts is one thing, and aftermarket parts is something else.

It comes down to, it is your gun and you are the one who will deal with what comes up.
The trigger I won here, I do not plan to put on my carry gun.

 

[jlw]

I also think a good shoot, is a good shoot, but the problem is what will a lawyer think, a lawyer who wants you in jail or your money, or a jury of 12?
In my CHL class, the talk was replacement with factory parts is one thing, and aftermarket parts is something else.

It comes down to, it is your gun and you are the one who will deal with what comes up.
The trigger I won here, I do not plan to put on my carry gun.

That's why your lawyer needs to make sure the debate is framed about justification and not extraneous stuff.

Arguing about the reliability of factory parts versus aftermarket parts is a different matter altogether.

Changing parts out shouldn't be an issue unless you shot somebody you didn't intend to shoot.

 

[coop]

That's why your lawyer needs to make sure the debate is framed about justification and not extraneous stuff.

Arguing about the reliability of factory parts versus aftermarket parts is a different matter altogether.

Changing parts out shouldn't be an issue unless you shot somebody you didn't intend to shoot.

I agree with you and I am sure most people will also.

In a good shooting, I also don't think a person should have to worry about being sued, but our court systems have let that happen, so in this system, my question is then how will those 12 people look at a person who has modified his gun?

 

[jlw]

The net is full of folks making all sort of statements about modified guns and home loaded ammo and other such things being made an issue of at trial. However, evidence is never presented to back up such claims. If anyone has any documented cases were such issues were brought to play in a successful prosecution or jury verdict in a civil action please post them.

I know of one case where ammo was an issue, and that is the case out west where one hiker packing a Glock 10mm shot a hiker and claimed self defense. The prosecution made an issue of the caliber choice claiming the 10mm was "more powerful than what law enforcement carries". The defense didn't counter this argument that the 10mm was developed for the FBI and is still in use as a LE duty weapon. The shooter was convicted, but the last I heard is that he may be getting a new trial. The hiker that was shot was not armed, but dogs were involved.

 

[coop]

Could not my last post to edit, on a BB pos.

The trigger I won, "The Edge", states it is not for carry use. So I am thinking that it would be hard to defend that in the court system we have.

 

[jlw]

Could not my last post to edit, on a BB pos.

The trigger I won, "The Edge", states it is not for carry use. So I am thinking that it would be hard to defend that in the court system we have.

Only if you didn't intend to fire the shot(s).

 

[EdF702]

Much of the concern and confusion rises from varying perspectives... The part maker has to cover his a$$ liability wise from the 'not intended discharge" argument put up by the lawyer for the person who shot someone not intended or a "bad shoot" and trying to avoid responsibility. Their (the part maker's) lawyer may insist on a label or notice to reduce the chance of "scatter gun liability suits".... The gun manufacturer's lawyer may require labeling re:" intentionally modifying this may" type language to protect them from a similarly unforeseen possibility and try to prevent liability (like the stickers on ladders warning to not place against power lines).... From different perspectives it makes some sense, but I think jlweems hits the nail on the head regarding the internet and misinformation...

 

[coop]

I have been carrying on this topic with friends, co-workers and people at the range.

I have received answers for don't do it and for a good shoot is a good shoot.
Only think different I heard was from an ex-police officer, that the modify trigger will cost more to defend, but that a good shoot is a good shoot.

So after read stuff here, listing to those who have been around guns longer than me here and other places, I would say with more knowledge than me on this, I guess a good shoot is a good shoot.