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Ready to invest in an AR15 but too many to choose from

23K views 55 replies 16 participants last post by  Otintx 
#1 ·
Got a situation. Am ready to invest in an AR-15 but don't know much about the different brands and only so much can believe by reading reviews.
I cannot spend $1,000.00 to $3,000.00 for one that will fire itself but don't want one that will fall apart either.
I've seen one I think it is a DPMS 5.56/.223 that comes with sights runs about $650.00. There is another I saw the bosted having a floating barrel for more accurate shooting.

I'm looking for a reliable AR-15 in 5.56 with sights, a carrying handle, dust cover, forward assist and won't cost more than $700.00.

As I stated, so many opinions, even Bushmaster was getting sassed now. Any honest ownership feedback for a budget mided guy that wants to buy his first and hopefully last AR-15 or personal defense and take to the desert for sport shooting.

Thanks,
John
 
#2 · (Edited)
Finally, somebody wants a close-to-issue AR-15! I'm so relieved, maybe the AR customization craze is going to fade after all. Like you, I prefer the basic A2 or A4, and they seem to be hard to find. The first time I fired an AR-15 was in the desert north of Phoenix, using ammunition that "fell out" of a National Guard helicopter. I couldn't believe that the thing was available to the public, it was so cool. And it remains that way today!

The DPMS A2 Classic should fulfill your requirements:A2 CLASSIC It's currently listed at $869 retail, and is a good quality rifle. If you can get one for $650, I would go for it. Anything that is wrong can easily be fixed, these things are armorer's dreams. I have built a few AR-15s on the DPMS receivers, using their parts, and things fit and function just fine.

I checked on the Armalite equivalent, the M15, but the price is still over $1,100 which is too much for this level of rifle. Rock River doesn't seem to offer a basic A2 or A4 rifle, and I haven't looked further. Part of the problem is that only the tricked-out rifles, with rails and optics, seem to be what are on the shelves, at least around here.

I think the supply of new AR-15 rifles is starting to catch up with demand, enough so that I have seen emails for "sale" offers on some models. When the prices do come down, I think the first effects will be felt in the used gun market, where pricing is more flexible. If you can live with an AR-15 that has been in someone else's hands for a while, I would check the gun stores, even putting out the word about what you want and stating your price goal. Or put up a sign at a range you frequent, that might get some attention.

Chris
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
Finally, somebody wants a close-to-issue AR-15! I'm so relieved, maybe the AR customization craze is going to fade after all. Like you, I prefer the basic A2 or A4, and they seem to be hard to find. The first time I fired an AR-15 was in the desert north of Phoenix, using ammunition that "fell out" of a National Guard helicopter. I couldn't believe that the thing was available to the public, it was so cool. And it remains that way today!

The DPMS A2 Classic should fulfill your requirements:A2 CLASSIC It's currently listed at $869 retail, and is a good quality rifle. If you can get one for $650, I would go for it. Anything that is wrong can easily be fixed, these things are armorer's dreams. I have built a few AR-15s on the DPMS receivers, using their parts, and things fit and function just fine.

I checked on the Armalite equivalent, the M15, but the price is still over $1,100 which is too much for this level of rifle. Rock River doesn't seem to offer a basic A2 or A4 rifle, and I haven't looked further. Part of the problem is that only the tricked-out rifles, with rails and optics, seem to be what are on the shelves, at least around here.

I think the supply of new AR-15 rifles is starting to catch up with demand, enough so that I have seen emails for "sale" offers on some models. When the prices do come down, I think the first effects will be felt in the used gun market, where pricing is more flexible. If you can live with an AR-15 that has been in someone else's hands for a while, I would check the gun stores, even putting out the word about what you want and stating your price goal. Or put up a sign at a range you frequent, that might get some attention.
Chris what do you think of the Windham AR15 .223? I have an old Bronco for sale and a guy wants to trade me a Springfield M1A .308 and the Windham. Says he paid $2000. for the Springfield and $1600 for the Windham. Don't know models or accessories.
al
 
#4 ·
WalMart has been selling Colt 6920s for under $1000 in their stores in many areas. I know that's more than you want to pay, but that's a rifle that is arguably as good as it gets and that's a very fair price.
 
#44 ·
What can you tell me about the Model 1 Stag Arms brother? Also, what are your thoughts regards to Delton rifles? Would a NIB Delton be worth $750.00?
Thanks
John
 
#9 ·
Windham is a fine weapon. Actually for the budget you are on, I'd say its your best option. I run ARs for a living just about and to be honest, you'd never catch me with a bushmaster(post1990s), dpms, olyimpic, and a few others.

The Windham has great features and comes with a lifetime transferable warranty.


I'm a bit of a Daniel Defense guy myself. If you can hold up for a good price on a colt, I'd say go for one of those.
 
#10 ·
I custom built my last one from parts and a stripped lower for right around 770 the exact way I wanted it. If you wanted to build an A2, you could do it for less. I got a chromed bolt and barrel which added $110 dollars to the total price. I understand some pieces are a bit tough to get ahold of but I just got a bolt and a stripped lower last week off of the shelf, so things are coming back around. I would also watch the classifieds for some lightly used guns where people are just looking to unload their credit card after a panic buy this winter. A friend of mine just bought a like new Sig M-400 for $650 out of the local news paper classifieds.
 
#11 ·
Thank you for all the feedback everyone. Yes Chris, being that I grew up with a great man for a father that drilledM1 Carbine into my head for being the most accurate rifle he used in the old USMC (WWII and Korean) I'm sure he is rolling over in his grave shaking his head. When I finally make the investment I imagine I will feel a smack on the back of my head feeling done by a pair of socks like he used to do. lol

Saw this advertisement WINDHAM WEAPONRY R16M4FTT-C1 223 REM | 5.56 NATO CARBON FIB for sale (957890961) showed one of my buddies that owns a few ARs. He advised to stay away from composite and carbon fiber. Do you all agree?

Thanks again
John
 
#13 · (Edited)
....Saw this advertisement WINDHAM WEAPONRY R16M4FTT-C1 223 REM | 5.56 NATO CARBON FIB for sale (957890961) showed one of my buddies that owns a few ARs. He advised to stay away from composite and carbon fiber. Do you all agree?...
That rifle is a long, long way from the "reliable AR-15 in 5.56 with sights, a carrying handle, dust cover, forward assist" that you mentioned in your first post. To begin with, it has no sights or carrying handle. The receiver is made from "Molded Carbon Fiber Composite (40% Carbon Fiber Content)".

I have no experience with "molded carbon fiber composite" receivers in firearms.

Personally, I like my AR-15s to be as close to "issue grade" as I can get them, with the obvious exception of the semi-auto only capability and my preference for chrome-lined barrels. That's just me. I will take the issue-grade plastic handguard, pistol grip, and buttstock just because they've been proven over time. Using GI parts is how you keep the price down.

Chris
 
#12 ·
I'm not big on polymer ARs and I had no clue that Windham made one. It does say carbon fiber...

I'd contact them directly and ask what the deal is with it.

You should be able to find a few folks selling off their recently acquired unneeded ARs they bought in the midst of the "panic" for fairly cheap as they have to pay the credit card bill used to purchase it. ;)

I will say that if you can increase your budget to at least $1200 it would mean the difference between a solid HD rifle and a plinker.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Here is a very good (albeit lengthy) read on the subject. It is (IMO) a very good summary of what to look for and what to avoid.

So you want to buy an AR-15, huh?
Good steer TopHat... That link is very informative.... I bought my AR a couple of years ago and I, and probably everyone else that is non military and don't have first hand experience with AR platform rifles, found the decision process can be overwhelming as there are so many options and choices.

Try to be patient, although due to current supply/demand issues that may be easier than you want, because the platform is very interesting and really not that hard to understand. Try to start from the "end use"... That is, if you are looking for a (3) gun competition rifle you probably shouldn't be considering a long barreled target gun etc...

Do your homework, and you may only need to buy another rifle when you want to add to your collection, instead of correcting an impulse buy. Good luck and be sure to post pics when you choose...

Here's mine

Machine gun Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory


Machine gun Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Recreation
 
#17 · (Edited)
Saw this advertisement WINDHAM WEAPONRY R16M4FTT-C1 223 REM | 5.56 NATO CARBON FIB for sale (957890961) showed one of my buddies that owns a few ARs. He advised to stay away from composite and carbon fiber. Do you all agree?
I handled and inspected a new CF model at the WW booth at the NRA show in Houston awhile back and although I did not get to shoot it, it did appear to be a nice weapon. It was considerably lighter than it's steel counter parts and the fit and finish on the weapon was very nice.

Remember when Polymer first came out all the horror story predictions that abounded ?

:cool:

(BTW if Walleye World would stock a 6920 round here for under a grand I would have it PDQ !)
 
#18 · (Edited)
I handled and inspected a new CF model at the WW booth at the NRA show in Houston awhile back and although I did not get to shoot it, it did appear to be a nice weapon. It was considerably lighter than it's steel counter parts and the fit and finish on the weapon was very nice...Remember when Polymer first came out all the horror story predictions that abounded ?..
You raise a very good point, OT. Allow me to explain my lack of enthusiasm for the carbon-fiber AR-15, or should I say the AR-15 with carbon-fiber-whatever upper and lower receivers.

A standard civilian AR, based on either the M16A2 or the M16A4, is a great rifle for NRA High Power (Service Rifle) competition, mainly because it is capable of delivering excellent accuracy. Interestingly, light weight is not considered much of a benefit in Service Rifle: many ARs used in competition carry additional weight in the form of a lead plug that fits into the cavity in the buttstock where the cleaning kit would normally be carried, and they employ a heavy steel float tube to isolate the front sling swivel from the barrel.

In a military rifle, assuming that the material will be durable, carbon-fiber receivers are probably a good idea: lower carrying weight is important, I would assume.

I've done a little reading about the use of carbon-fiber in the AR receivers, and I think that it's an interesting idea and will probably work well, at least initially. However, I have a concern about substituting materials in designs: the AR was designed to use aluminum in the receivers, and we know it works well if done properly. Just substituting carbon-fiber for aluminum seems to be simply a means to differentiate the product. I have reservations about the prospects for long-term wear in this case.

In my opinion, carbon-fiber upper- and lower receivers on an AR-15 are pretty much a gimmick. I think that the possible advantages of light weight and strength are offset by the fact that the material is not (yet) used in the M16.

To me, some of the dollar value of the AR-15 comes from the pedigree: it is based on a military rifle. As I consider most of my guns as assets that hopefully hold their value until I sell them, I like my AR-15s to be as close to issue-grade as possible (I think I've mentioned this before).

If the Government builds a carbon-fiber M16, I will join the line to get a carbon-fiber AR-15. Until then, I'm not interested.

Here's my AR-15:

Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Machine gun


Well, not really mine (it's Armalite boilerplate), but you get the idea.

Chris
 
#19 ·
#23 ·
As long as it's marked 5.56 it will shoot both, and the dual marking is, I believe, just for "clarity". If the gun is marked ".223, then it won't shoot 5.56 as you said. For me, that would prevent me buying that model. I'm sure there is another one of those, almost the same, with the "dual" chambering.
 
#24 · (Edited)
For this particular rifle (the carbine in .223) I agree with you: the 5.56 or "dual" chambering would be preferable because the configuration of the rifle doesn't necessarily lend itself to precision shooting. Although it's not specified, the barrel is probably a 1:9" twist.

If I wanted a(nother) AR-15 with a 20" barrel that just might be used in competition, I would prefer the .223 chamber for the sake of accuracy, and I would specify a 1:7" twist. I would plan to handload for that one, and that is one heck of an accurate little rifle!

Chris
 
#26 ·
I will second everyone's opinion on Windham, they are well made, basically a Bushmaster from back when they cranked quality products. Also should look into S&W M&P, but it will be difficult to find all you want at your target price. Truth is I was on your boat last year and my conclusion is you are much better off by going up to at least $1,000. You will get mill spec parts, better barrel, BCG, trigger, etc, all things you will likely want to upgrade later anyway. And a thousand can get you very good brands like Colt, Windham, Spikes Tactical, Sig, Stags, and others. My LGS has the Ruger SR piston new for $1,100! My next AR will be a Daniel Defense!
 
#28 ·
Better get 'em before Washington goes after them again! It amazes me how politicians get so wound up about "inanimate objects"... If they concerned themselves more with people and less with "things" and "causes", we'd maybe get back to who we are!
 
#30 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the responses. I may have found my rifle. Is being sold locally by a private party, advertised he only put 400 rounds through it. The price is in my league, it is on of the high quality rifles mentioned but holding back details until I have checked it out in person and either bought it or passed since the deal is very good. No offense to anyone but it is almost one that is too good to be true. Might be the clean living and honesty coming back to help me.
Will keep in touch.
John

Update: I have to wonder if the rifle I'd seen was stolen and the guy was trying to get rid of it fast. It was on backpage.com. Was a Colt LEO/Military marked advertised for 750.00. Sent the guy an email showing interest at 4a.m. Asked him to call or text me in the morning with time and place. At around 9am he emails me says "Sold It!". Gee, thanks for the chance buddy!

As my neighbor's father stated, "you don't get a $1300.00 gun for that price unless it is stolen or the person did not know what they had."

Talking with a guy now that is selling his Stag Arms AR-15 5.56 for $750.00. If he still has it when I get back in town, will be making the investment. Needs a scope mount bolt replaced, no biggie.

Reason I am not going to the $1,000.00 range, I cannot justify putting that much out for a rifle. I do not shoot competition, very long range practice. Looking for an additional defense weapon that will get the job done. Living on a budget does suck sometimes but keeps me from spending outside of my means.

Thanks again everyone. Read all comments and absorbed the information.

John
 
#31 ·
Thanks for all the responses. I may have found my rifle. Is being sold locally by a private party, advertised he only put 400 rounds through it. The price is in my league, it is on of the high quality rifles mentioned but holding back details until I have checked it out in person and either bought it or passed since the deal is very good. No offense to anyone but it is almost one that is too good to be true. Might be the clean living and honesty coming back to help me.
Will keep in touch.
John
Good for you and you KNOW you are required to post pics!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#34 ·
This thread and it's included links are quite timely for me as I am also ready for an AR15 and find the choices baffling.
I was given a brief primer on ARs the other day at my trusted LGS but I still need a lot of research before buying.
Thanks for the thread!
 
#35 ·
This is a late response, and just about everything has been answered now... But I figured I'd jump in.
My AR list was quite good before it was all sold for court costs...
Here's the line up...
The one on top was a Ruger SR556, Nice rifle, but I didn't really see the need for the piston driven operation, or the 100 round drum which was removed along with that fore grip that was on there...
The one in the center was a Rock River LAR-8, (.308) It was a blast to shoot, till I decided I didn't like the "rattle" in the stock. Long story short... DON'T EVER take the buffer apart, there is nothing in there anyone would EVER need to replace.
The one on the bottom was my favorite, a 20" barrel and match sights, it was a really good shooter. It was by far, my favorite rifle ever. I will be building my next one exactly like it with the exception of a free float hand guard. It started out as a stripped lower made by Black Rain Ordnance. I loved that rifle.
Air gun Trigger Line Gun barrel Gun accessory
 
#42 ·
I have a Smith & Wesson M&P15 with the 1:9 M4 profile barrell. I shoot my handloads of Horniday 55 gr boattail V-max buttels. I can put one round on another at over 200 yards with a Redfield Revolution 3x9-40mm scope. Its a plenty for defensive, hunting (moderate sized game), and plinking purposes. There are so many options to choose from that I feel form factor, weight, reputation are more important data points than barrel twist or gimicky features.
 
#47 ·
Never having used the Hornady bullet you mentioned, I would certainly take your word about your accuracy results. And at 55 grains, the Hornady should work well in any AR-15 barrel.

The boattail seems to be the magic ingredient, even the military is using it now in the M855, which carries a 62-grain green-tipped boattail. ATK has this to say about the M855: "Adopted by NATO in 1980, the new load has a spitzer boattail bullet. It also has much improved penetration characteristics over the old M193 55-grain projectile at all ranges, resulting in higher retained velocity and greater accuracy at long range."

Admittedly, barrel twist is a fine point, but for competitive shooters it's critical, and that's usually my focus. As a practical matter, for everyday or defensive shooting, I agree with you that form factor and quality (as opposed to reputation) are more important factors for most AR-15 buyers.

Chris
 
#43 ·
No apology needed Chris. The knowledge you pass along is appreciated and helpful not only to me but other members also. Least you did not write "go to google or yahoo and search the answer." You not only provide an answer but the why and how you came about that answer.

Thanks again brother.
John
 
#48 ·
#49 · (Edited)
Took all the knowledge passed on by everyone and went shopping the web. After 6 hours of searching multitudes of auctions and for sale sites I found my rifle.
It has everything I wanted and more and figured for the quality I was making an investment in a soild rig:

Palmetto M4 w/ scope & rail, New, nib, No Reserve : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

Need to find an FFL in the West Phoenix area near Tolleson that is not charging an arm and a leg to handle the transfer.

Thanks again to all that provided advice, I did read all posts and used parts of everyone's post to make my choice. I hope I am as excited and happy once she arrives. :)

*****Tried uploading a few pictures from the auction using the Basic Uploader. I selected the pictures from my gallery but never uploaded anything. Is there something goofed with the basic uploader? Using the other defauly uploader thingy is a pain the they Buttstock. ;-). ***** I am using an ASUS Android Tablet if that helps.
 
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