[Don Glock]

ALE director John Ledford said the Kimber pistols repeatedly suffered such problems as rounds jamming during training exercises, broken sights and the weapon's safety button sometimes falling off. He made a deal with a local firearms dealer to swap the pricey pistols for less expensive handguns without spending any additional money.

Link:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/02/06/2039969/costly-ale-guns-fail-get-traded.html

 

[Rowdie]

Don, it looks like you and I were posting this at the same time!

 

[Don Glock]

Don, it looks like you and I were posting this at the same time!

i believe i beat you by 4 minutes LOL

this sure is a bad rap on kimber, who already has garnered a less than sterling qc rep

 

[koja1962]

those would be some expensive paper weights.

 

[jlw]

I edited the original post so that the entire article didn't appear here. There is a company that is buying copyrights and then pursuing royalty payments from message boards where complete articles are posted.

----------------

I read a similar article on the subject in which the Kimbers were referred to as "collector grade" firearms. Expensive? Yes. Collector grade? No.

I'm willing to wager that they are using low quality magazines. I imagine that if they switched to Wilson Combat or Kimpro Tac-mags that the reliability problems would go away.

I also am willing to wager that the safeties that are falling off are ambidextrous safeties which are prone to do so.

I'm further willing to wager that the agents weren't ever given satisfactory training on the 1911 platform and that they aren't individually providing proper upkeep of the pistols. the 1911 can't be treated like a Glock. It takes a bit more attention to detail.

 

[TedG954]

those would be some expensive paper weights.

I'm sure that there's nothing wrong with the Kimbers that 5 or 6 hundred bucks won't fix.... by a competent gunsmith.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I edited the original post so that the entire article didn't appear here. There is a company that is buying copyrights and then pursuing royalty payments from message boards where complete articles are posted.

----------------

I read a similar article on the subject in which the Kimbers were referred to as "collector grade" firearms. Expensive? Yes. Collector grade? No.

I'm willing to wager that they are using low quality magazines. I imagine that if they switched to Wilson Combat or Kimpro Tac-mags that the reliability problems would go away.

I also am willing to wager that the safeties that are falling off are ambidextrous safeties which are prone to do so.

I'm further willing to wager that the agents weren't ever given satisfactory training on the 1911 platform and that they aren't individually providing proper upkeep of the pistols. the 1911 can't be treated like a Glock. It takes a bit more attention to detail.

I'd venture to say that's a pretty good assessment jl. I do like my Kimber Ultra, but probably only have about 3,000 rounds thru it. Kimber does have the MIM issues, but as you said, I'd be willing to wager there is as much failure to train and use of quality mags.

 

[VolGrad]

The Chief and I had the 1911 vs GLOCK discussion on the way home from IDPA yesterday. I personally would prefer to see LE agencies issued something like a G34 or G35 for the tactical teams vs a 1911.

I LOVE my Ed Brown but just don't see it as a duty weapon. If that is what I was issued I'd be happy but I wouldn't get warm and fuzzy about a Kimber or lower end SA, etc.

Larry Vickers is a 1911-guru, world renowned for his knowledge and custom guns, and has stated many times there's no reason for any MIL or LEO agency to be issueing 1911s for the rank and file. He says there are too many better options available, even if they insiste on a .45acp. I heard him say this in person. It's in my class notes.

 

[Occam's Razor]

The Chief and I had the 1911 vs GLOCK discussion on the way home from IDPA yesterday. I personally would prefer to see LE agencies issued something like a G34 or G35 for the tactical teams vs a 1911.

I LOVE my Ed Brown but just don't see it as a duty weapon. If that is what I was issued I'd be happy but I wouldn't get warm and fuzzy about a Kimber or lower end SA, etc.

Larry Vickers is a 1911-guru, world renowned for his knowledge and custom guns, and has stated many times there's no reason for any MIL or LEO agency to be issueing 1911s for the rank and file. He says there are too many better options available, even if they insiste on a .45acp. I heard him say this in person. It's in my class notes.

Like I said, I love my Ultra Carry, but my go-to gun for EDC and work is the Glock 19.

 

[Don Glock]

I edited the original post so that the entire article didn't appear here. There is a company that is buying copyrights and then pursuing royalty payments from message boards where complete articles are posted.

----------------

I read a similar article on the subject in which the Kimbers were referred to as "collector grade" firearms. Expensive? Yes. Collector grade? No.

I'm willing to wager that they are using low quality magazines. I imagine that if they switched to Wilson Combat or Kimpro Tac-mags that the reliability problems would go away.

I also am willing to wager that the safeties that are falling off are ambidextrous safeties which are prone to do so.

I'm further willing to wager that the agents weren't ever given satisfactory training on the 1911 platform and that they aren't individually providing proper upkeep of the pistols. the 1911 can't be treated like a Glock. It takes a bit more attention to detail.

right on, my friend. i had no idea, thanx for editing that certainly don't want to cause rob any probs.

as for the malfunctions--at the price point, i believe the kimbers should have functioned without the issue widespread issues. i was reading a police officers' forum where a CA cop said his dept's SWAT team had kimbers with parts always breaking, but thankfully they had a full time smitty on hand lol

lots of 1911 use ambi safeties that rarely have problems of breaking, like springfield armory who uses MIM safeties or wilson combat who use solid billet ambi's for their bulletproof ones. it's the quality of the part that counts

 

[Don Glock]

I'd venture to say that's a pretty good assessment jl. I do like my Kimber Ultra, but probably only have about 3,000 rounds thru it. Kimber does have the MIM issues, but as you said, I'd be willing to wager there is as much failure to train and use of quality mags.

MIM parts aren't an issue if made properly. like any other product, some manufacturers make them right, and some don't

i'm trying to find the thread on 1911forum where the mod/gunsmith talks about MIM vs cast vs forged parts

 

[jlw]

right on, my friend. i had no idea, thanx for editing that certainly don't want to cause rob any probs.

as for the malfunctions--at the price point, i believe the kimbers should have functioned without the issue widespread issues. i was reading a police officers' forum where a CA cop said his dept's SWAT team had kimbers with parts always breaking, but thankfully they had a full time smitty on hand lol

lots of 1911 use ambi safeties that rarely have problems of breaking, like springfield armory. it's the quality of the part that counts

I have an issued Kimber albeit with a very low round count, and it has only been issued to me. It's performed well in what little shooting I have done with it. Our SRT guys use them, and what issues with function that have cropped up have been fixed with using a better quality magazine. My pistol came with an ambi-safety, but their pistols do not have them. In my experience though, the ambi safeties can work themselves loose although I have never had it happen personally to me.

I did have an ambi safety on a Springfield Champion that I owned at one time.

Kimbers are much easier to come by in our area.

 

[Don Glock]

I have an issued Kimber albeit with a very low round count, and it has only been issued to me. It's performed well in what little shooting I have done with it. Our SRT guys use them, and what issues with function that have cropped up have been fixed with using a better quality magazine. My pistol came with an ambi-safety, but their pistols do not have them. In my experience though, the ambi safeties can work themselves loose although I have never had it happen personally to me.

I did have an ambi safety on a Springfield Champion that I owned at one time.

Kimbers are much easier to come by in our area.

yeah i fit single sided safeties on my spring armory 1911's just because i don't have a use for an ambi safety and it something that can snag your close when carrying. i too have read they can work loose, but haven't experienced it myself.

i know the tacoma pd were issued kimbers several years ago, being the first pd to issue a 1911 in several decades, and they use kimbers. haven't heard of any issues, but i don't know what their kimber specs are exactly. not sure if they use ambi safeties or not. i certainly don't think all kimbers are bad, but it seems the durability of their parts can vary greatly from one gun to the next.

can you post a pic of your issue kimber? like to see it you don't get to see very many " LE issue" 1911's lol

 

[jlw]

I don't have an ambi-safety in my personal 1911, and I don't know that I will ever put one on it. I don't use it as a carry gun.

Another issue with the current production 1911s is the obsession with full length guide rods (FLGR). My Springfield came from the factory with one and had some early reliability issues. I switched it to a standard plug, and it has been flawless ever since AND more accurate. I swapped out the FLGR on my Kimber before ever firing the first shot with it.

 

[Don Glock]

I don't have an ambi-safety in my personal 1911, and I don't know that I will ever put one on it. I don't use it as a carry gun.

Another issue with the current production 1911s is the obsession with full length guide rods (FLGR). My Springfield came from the factory with one and had some early reliability issues. I switched it to a standard plug, and it has been flawless ever since AND more accurate. I swapped out the FLGR on my Kimber before ever firing the first shot with it.

i agree. i can't stand FLGR's on 1911's. they do nothing more than make takedown a complete pain in the ass lol. even les baer has said they're useless. neither of my springers came with one thankfully, but i would dump it for a GI plug if they did.

now my champion operator has a dual spring recoil assembly that works great at reducing recoil, and doesn't complicate takedown at all. however, a two piece or a even a one piece non-captive unit like the one's on the loaded and TRP models i would definitely be replacing.