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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I have seen it posted, but can't find it.
There is a "pie chart" that will give you and idea of what you are doing wrong, base on your group.

I am still shooting a little left and low, about an inch off of center. I think this means that I am still pull the gun with my finger, or not "not hold it tight enough" with my left hand (enough opposite push), Does that sound right????????????

I am still shooting better with my Glcok 19 than I am with my Sig P250 and the group is very good, just low and left.
 

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Is this it? http://www.txdpsa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=202 You're on the right track so far, and glad to see that you're troubleshooting rather than blaming the gun. I'm working on the same thing since my groups are slightly to the left at 25 yards. Using a USPSA target I'm getting mostly A hits, but some are in the C range.

When you say an inch off center, from what distance is that?

I'm assuming you're right handed. If you're shooting with two hands you should be holding the pistol more strongly with the support hand than the trigger hand. I've heard 60/40 -- 60% from the support hand and 40% with your dominant hand. No idea how one measures that; to me, 60/40 sounds like, "apply just a little more force with your support hand". Try this experiment: when you're shooting, squeeze your grip as tight as you can with the support hand and keep your trigger hand loose. See where your groups go.

Also, how much dry firing are you doing? If it's not "a lot" then it's something worth considering. Trigger control is definitely a huge portion of the low-left phenomenon. Here's a thread that I still go back to time and time again because it has such helpful information: http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=glock_faq_trigger_technique_101.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am shooting at about 10 yards, maybe a little less, there is a 7 yard line and I am just passed that. I have done some shots farther out at about 20 yards and I am just a little farther off, with couple in a little closer.

Dry firing is something I doing more and more. My dry fire is done with my Sig P250, because it is a double action only (DAO) and has a long pull, so I can keep pulling the trigger as much as I want.
I have 2 way to practice;
1=place a quarter on top of the slide and try to get to 50 dry fires before it comes off.
2=turn laser on and try to keep the light from moving around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ah, I think I'm misreading your OP. Are you low and left for both your G19 and your Sig? Or was it just the Sig?
both guns, and my wife's HK40. So that tells me it is something that I am doing. There are times that I am right on, but that is only about 20% of the time.
I know it is me, when I had the Glock sights replaced, I shot way left, more than normal. One of the range guys shot it and it shot left for him. After an adjustment, he was dead center and I was a 1/2 left at 10 yards. I find it harder to shoot the Sig, bigger recoil, and a very long trigger pull.
 

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both guns, and my wife's HK40. So that tells me it is something that I am doing. There are times that I am right on, but that is only about 20% of the time.
I know it is me, when I had the Glock sights replaced, I shot way left, more than normal. One of the range guys shot it and it shot left for him. After an adjustment, he was dead center and I was a 1/2 left at 10 yards. I find it harder to shoot the Sig, bigger recoil, and a very long trigger pull.
I did come across this post in another part of glock.pro. Pretty timely

http://glock.pro/showthread.php/966-Glock-Hate?p=10220#post10220

BTW, how's your drop-in trigger that you won from GlockTriggers.com?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the information, while dry firing, I have started using my left hand with more pressure to keep the gun from moving.

And I will work on these tricks
The tricks are:

1) Pull the DA with more finger through the trigger
2) Very tight support hand--use it to counteract any movement caused by pulling the trigger
3) Press the support hand thumb against the frame in a balanced way...balance the pressures
4) Focus upon pulling straight back
5) Shoot from the reset (There are only two pulls: the long pull and the reset pull. Almost all guns have this)
6) Understand that pressure must be balanced between the hands
7) The shooter can use his or her trigger finger as a stop by putting even more finger through the trigger guard. See Jerry Miculek's videos on shooting revolvers.

If someone can handle a 12-15 pound pull on a revolver, SIG, or similar gun, then anything else is easier. However, most people simply need something to blame for their failure and guns don't talk back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
went shooting today, for the most part, I was still low and left. But I did put a nice group on target at 12-14 yards.
I figured out that I was using too little finger and thought I was on the right path.

Stop at the range a little later in the day, and was talking to the guys at the range about a getting a lesson.
The manager, Chris took me back into the range and we talked about; how to stand, holding the gun, aiming, where to look, placement of my finger on the trigger, the need to pull smoothly on the trigger, breathing and I am thinking more that I can't think of right now.
He also had me step around the corner and he loaded my gun, then had me come back and present the gun and shoot. We found out that I was anticipating the recoil, because the gun wasn't loaded and you could see me push the gun down, so with that and the too little finger was making my shots go left and low.
So after hearing what I was doing wrong and being told the right way, I was putting shots in a very tight group right on target.
Now comes the part of remembering what I just learned and putting it to practices.
 

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<snip>
He also had me step around the corner and he loaded my gun, then had me come back and present the gun and shoot. We found out that I was anticipating the recoil, because the gun wasn't loaded and you could see me push the gun down, so with that and the too little finger was making my shots go left and low.
So after hearing what I was doing wrong and being told the right way, I was putting shots in a very tight group right on target.
Now comes the part of remembering what I just learned and putting it to practices.
psych! Great way to diagnose that you were anticipating recoil. Another great drill is to have someone mix your live rounds with 1 or 2 snap caps. That way you won't know when you'll dry fire, and you'll be able to tell if you're still flinching.
 

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Congratulations, coop!

It's always nice to get stuff figured out so you can shoot better...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
psych! Great way to diagnose that you were anticipating recoil. Another great drill is to have someone mix your live rounds with 1 or 2 snap caps. That way you won't know when you'll dry fire, and you'll be able to tell if you're still flinching.
That was one of the things I forgot, that we talked about.
 

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Isn't it a great feeling when you get those "a ha!" moments and learn new ways to improve your shooting?

One of the things that cured my groups to the left problem was the way I held my grip. I was putting much more squeezing force in my shooting hand than my support hand. When I put more force in the support hand and focused on a smooth trigger pull, making sure that I wasn't tightening the rest of my fingers in the hand during the trigger squeeze, my groups stayed centered. Before I discovered that issue, my avatar shows my 25 yard groups still slightly leftward, firing at a medium-paced speed.

After working on the way I formed and held my 2 hand grip I ended up with this:
 

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Thanks, jb. I should be more specific. I have about 100 rounds through the target. 2/3 of them were from 25 yards shooting at medium speed-- I'm guessing about 1-2 seconds between rounds. About 30 of my shots were Mozambique drills (drawing from a holster-- yes, my Serpa) at 10 yards. I can't remember now whether or not the taped C and D shots were to 10 yard or 25 yard ones...
 
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