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Gwinnett county PD set up at I-85 north and Hamilton Mill Rd. exit today pulling over everyone who stopped at the top of the exit then made a right turn on the red light headed towards Hamilton Mill. The sign there states "Stop here on red". The policeman who ticketed my wife and others stated the sign "Stop here on red" means the same thing as "No right turn on red". My wife has been making that turn for nearly three years. So does EVERYBODY else who stops there. Is the officer correct or not? Thanks for any input.
 

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The intersection in question:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hamilton+Mill+Rd+%26+Interstate+85,+Dacula-Rocky+Creek,+Gwinnett,+Georgia+30019&hl=en&ll=34.074053,-83.917697&spn=0.001153,0.001714&oe=utf8&geocode=FdntBwIdMHr_-g&hnear=Hamilton+Mill+Rd+%26+Interstate+85,+Dacula-Rocky+Creek,+Gwinnett,+Georgia+30019&t=h&z=19

I'm not a lawman, lawyer, or logger - but the original intent of the sign in question was to "clarify the drivers' responsibility at a confusing intersection". STOP HERE ON RED, is usually coupled with a painted line in the road. For any number of reasons, the dot wants a driver to come to a complete stop behind the painted line. Could be to keep from blocking an intersection, or to leave room for drivers coming from the opposite direction to make a left-hand turn.
Just my guess, but on this intersection it appears that the intent is to stop behind the line and stay there until the light turns green. There is the possibility of blocking the intersection, if there is traffic in the left lane you can not see oncoming traffic, and there's some screwy stuff going on after you turn onto Hamilton Mill Road - including a pedestrian crosswalk. Again, this is just a wild guess on my part. Doing a quick Google search, "no one" knows what this sign is supposed to mean, and "everyone" ignores it. Until they get a ticket!
 

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Gwinnett county PD set up at I-85 north and Hamilton Mill Rd. exit today pulling over everyone who stopped at the top of the exit then made a right turn on the red light headed towards Hamilton Mill. The sign there states "Stop here on red". The policeman who ticketed my wife and others stated the sign "Stop here on red" means the same thing as "No right turn on red". My wife has been making that turn for nearly three years. So does EVERYBODY else who stops there. Is the officer correct or not? Thanks for any input.
From my experiences in Gwinnett county over the last 20-30 years I think
they have more serious problems than where you stop on red!
 

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I'm not from GA, but according to the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUCTD) by the Federal Highway Administration:

Traffic Signal signs (see Figure 2B-19) may be installed at certain locations to clarify signal control. Among the legends for this purpose are LEFT ON GREEN ARROW ONLY (R10-5), STOP HERE ON RED (R10-6 or R10-6a) for observance of stop lines, DO NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION (R10-7) for avoidance of traffic obstructions, USE LANE(S) WITH GREEN ARROW (R10-8) for obedience to Lane Control signals, LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN (symbolic green ball) (R10-12), and LEFT TURN SIGNAL YIELD ON GREEN (symbolic green ball) (R10-21) (see Section 4D.06).

See link for Figure 2B-19:
FHWA - MUTCD - 2003 Edition Revision 1 Chapter 2B

I would take this information to the Court Clerks office and see if they can dismiss/drop the ticket. It appears the officer was incorrect in his interpretation. I would also show this to his supervisor so this doesn't happen in the future.
 

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I went to this intersection on the way back yesterday. I saw what you are referring to. I am not a law Enforcement Officer, nor a lawyer but here is what I think is the deal. There is a Stop Here on Red sign and a line, that is before the crosswalk. If you stop at the line, and there is a vehicle in the left lane turning left, you can't see the traffic coming, therefore you can't pull out and go, even though I do not "believe" there is any issue with you turning red after coming to a complete stop at that intersection. It is impossible to stop at the line, with a vehicle in the left lane and see oncoming traffic. So if there was no car in the left lane blocking your view, and you come to a complete stop before the line, clear the intersection and then make the turn, I'd fight a ticket for that any day.
 

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I am certified in GA. Here is the law regulating this incident. Go to my next post for the condensed version.




§ 40-6-21. Meaning of traffic signals


(a) The following meanings shall be given to highway traffic signal indications, except those on pedestrian signals:

(1) Green indications shall have the following meanings:

(A) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a CIRCULAR GREEN signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn. Vehicular traffic turning shall yield the right of way to approaching vehicles. Vehicular traffic must stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal is exhibited is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching and is within one lane of the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For the purposes of this subparagraph, "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel;

(B) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a GREEN ARROW signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Such vehicular traffic shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk to cross the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching and is within one lane of the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For the purposes of this subparagraph, "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel. Vehicular traffic shall yield the right of way to other traffic lawfully using the intersection; and

(C) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian signal, pedestrians facing any green indication, except when the sole green indication is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk;

(2) Steady yellow indications shall have the following meanings:

(A) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR YELLOW or YELLOW ARROW signal is thereby warned that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection; and

(B) Pedestrians facing a steady CIRCULAR YELLOW or YELLOW ARROW signal, unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian signal, are thereby advised that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown, and no pedestrian shall then start to cross the roadway; and

(3) Steady red indications shall have the following meanings:

(A) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal alone shall stop at a clearly marked stop line or, if there is no stop line, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection, and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subparagraphs (B), (C), and (D) of this paragraph;

(B) Vehicular traffic facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal may cautiously enter the intersection to make a right turn after stopping as provided in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph. Such vehicular traffic shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching and is within one lane of the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning. For the purposes of this subparagraph, "half of the roadway" means all traffic lanes carrying traffic in one direction of travel. Vehicular traffic shall yield the right of way to other traffic lawfully using the intersection;

(C) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal, after stopping as provided in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph, may make a right turn but shall stop and remain stopped for pedestrians and yield the right of way to other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at such intersection. Such vehicular traffic shall not make a right turn against a steady CIRCULAR RED signal at any intersection where a sign is erected prohibiting such right turn;

(D) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal, after stopping as provided in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph, may make a left turn from the left-hand lane of a one-way street onto a one-way street on which the traffic moves toward the driver's left but shall stop and remain stopped for pedestrians and yield the right of way to other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at such intersection. Such vehicular traffic shall not make a left turn against a steady CIRCULAR RED signal at any intersection where a sign is erected prohibiting such left turn;

(E) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian signal, pedestrians facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal alone shall not enter the roadway;

(F) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady RED ARROW signal indication may not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by such arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line or, if there is no stop line, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if there is no crosswalk, before entering the intersection, and shall remain standing until an indication to make the movement indicated by such arrow is shown; and

(G) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian signal, pedestrians facing a steady RED ARROW signal indication shall not enter the roadway.

(b) In the event an official traffic-control device signal is erected and maintained at a place other than an intersection, the provisions of this Code section shall be applicable except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Any stop required shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made, but, in the absence of any such sign or marking, the stop shall be made at the signal.
 

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§ 40-6-21. Meaning of traffic signals

(C) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal, after stopping as provided in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph, may make a right turn but shall stop and remain stopped for pedestrians and yield the right of way to other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at such intersection. Such vehicular traffic shall not make a right turn against a steady CIRCULAR RED signal at any intersection where a sign is erected prohibiting such right turn;


That soooounds like the sign has to actually read "no right turn on red." However, if he is comfortably writing this ticket, his court may accept what he is doing in their circuit.
 

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§ 40-6-21. Meaning of traffic signals

(C) Traffic, except pedestrians, facing a steady CIRCULAR RED signal, after stopping as provided in subparagraph (A) of this paragraph, may make a right turn but shall stop and remain stopped for pedestrians and yield the right of way to other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at such intersection. Such vehicular traffic shall not make a right turn against a steady CIRCULAR RED signal at any intersection where a sign is erected prohibiting such right turn;


That soooounds like the sign has to actually read "no right turn on red." However, if he is comfortably writing this ticket, his court may accept what he is doing in their circuit.
Or, as a judge once told me about a traffic cop, "if he were smart enough to understand the law, he'd be doing something else for a living." :cool:
 

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A. That post was over two years old...

B. We like and approve of Law Enforcement Officers hanging out on Glock.pro... We don't talk down to them...
 

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Or, as a judge once told me about a traffic cop, "if he were smart enough to understand the law, he'd be doing something else for a living." :cool:
Funny thing about judges - they get to interpret the law. We simply get to read it and do what it says.

Also, due to the fact that there are multiple levels of appellate courts (local, state and federal) that have complete, full time staffs - I'd say that the chances are 100% that judges are often wrong, just like every other human being.
 

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We are a tourist destination town ! You would not believe what I have seen on the roadway here.


We have, " Right turn on red okay" and "No right turn on red", signs, along with the majority of intersections not having any sign for directions.

We also have cars turning right from the left lane, turning right from the second over left lane and so forth and so on....


It is generally accepted to turn right on red after a full stop, (not a rolling stop), here.
 
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