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expanding vs fragmenting

8K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  justme 
There is so much to terminal ballistics. I've been looking into it for a long time and still have only a basic grasp of the subject.

We don't use magic fragmenting bullets on animals when we hunt. Why would I use such a bullet when my life is on the line? We know what works and the human body has not changed since the first bullet was made.

I decided upon the following long ago:

1) Handgun terminal ballistics suck in comparison to rifle terminal ballistics.
2) In an encounter, I will be liberal in sharing my ammo.
3) Multiple wound channels are better than one because bad guys bleed out faster. This causes them to stop fighting faster. I will continue to be nice and share my bullets with the bad guy if he deserves it. After all, they are $1 apiece.
4) I will shoot as fast as possible while continuing to place the shots on target.
5) I will use JHP ammunition and hope that it expands. If it does not expand, the permanent wound channel will be as large as the mouth of the bullet. If it expands, then the permanent wound channel will be slightly larger. Either way, I will liberally share my bullets with the bad guy!
6) I don't worry about overpenetration. I worry about missing. If a bullet goes through the bad guy, then that's the way it's meant to be. Any bullet that won't penetrate drywall probably won't penetrate a leatherclad crackhead.
7) I will try to consider what is behind the bad guy, but I make no guarantees because the situation could dictate that I have to fight immediately.
8) I do not worry about caliber so long as it's on the list of commonly available calibers considered good for defense. 9x19mm is the lowest I'll go. They're all about the same, which means performance sucks. I will assume failure to stop and be liberal in sharing my ammo until the bad guy no longer deserves it.
9) I don't believe anything I read written by marketing departments or gun writers when it comes to bullet performance.
10) I will use FMJ bullets if that is all that is available. I prefer JHP and flat point ammunition. However, FMJ will do just fine if I do my part.
 
It is not an "overpenetration" issue if you miss. It seems to me that your real concern is how a bullet behaves when it strikes something other than a human body. Bullets do weird things sometimes and the behavior can change with velocity, bullet weight, construction, shape and so on.

I guess one way to test this would be to shoot ammunition through ballistic gelatin and see how far it goes through your fabricated walls. This may give you an idea of what will happen, though I am not certain it's a good test. Then try it directly against the fabricated wall. There should be some difference and you'll need to do quite a few shots before you have an idea of what will happen.

Use high quality JHP ammo for your gun. That's about the best you can do. Go research the prefragmented ammunition performance...what I have read has shown it's not good (not claiming any expertise here...just a few police after action reports from various sources). One instance comes to mind where the rounds only penetrated a few inches into the bad guy. The attack did not stop.

In the end, it comes down to you shooting well with good ammo.

While you're at it, shoot some meat. Tie it up with string to keep it tight and shoot the end.

I look forward to seeing your test results!
 
Not talking about a miss, though it could happen at night...is anyone SURE a 10mm full load charge (even with a hollow point) might not travel completely through on say, a gut shot? If anyone knows for sure, I'd take much comfort in that...
Nothing is sure when it comes to this stuff. There are very few people who are actually able to speak about this topic in any sort of scientific way.

This is why I suggested you put some ballistic gelatin in front of your test walls. At least you'll have an idea of what your carry ammo will do.

Frankly, though, I think you're getting worried over Nth degree "what ifs".

I know there are all these articles in gun magazines and the 'Net about overpenetration. These articles sell expensive ammunition and gun magazines. The actual incidence of this is extremely low. Do some research on this and you'll find the MSM sensationalizes these incidents. If only 20%ish of police bullets actually hit their target, where do the other 80%ish go? Down the street, that's where! (I'd have to dig up the actual stats on police hits but it's quite low).

Just remember, you can do EVERYTHING RIGHT and STILL LOSE. You can win the gun fight in a brilliant way, with every cop and witness swearing up and down you were the good guy, and a prosecutor could still go after you. The jury could convict you. You could zipper the bad guy up and, in his last gasp of life, he fires the luckiest shot in the world and you die...or your kid dies.

If you THINK 10mm is just too much, then swap it out for a Glock 21. 45 ACP is great for defense and there are many reputable self-defense loads available.

The best you can do is be in the right, make solid hits, and have a self-defense lawyer.
 
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