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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
A thread recently carried quite a bit of discussion about whether a Glock pistol had discharged "out of battery" (or OOB), but I never saw a clear definition of just what "in battery" means. Here is an attempt at that definition, for a Glock pistol:

A Glock pistol is determined to be "in battery" when the Barrel and Slide are locked by the force of the Recoil Spring as shown in the photo below, so that the breech face in the Slide fully covers the breech in the Barrel, forming a closed firing chamber. The Barrel is in its fully forward position, held by the the Slide Lock.

Hand Office supplies Gesture Finger Office equipment

Now, I'm not in any position of authority to make this declaration, I'm doing it simply to try to gather a consensus of the definition of "in battery" for use in future discussions on this Forum.

Your comments, corrections, and criticisms are most welcome.

Chris
 

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I think you nailed it, Chris!
 

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A Glock pistol is determined to be "in battery" when the Barrel and Slide are locked by the force of the Recoil Spring as shown in the photo below, so that the breech face in the Slide fully covers the breech in the Barrel, forming a closed firing chamber. The Barrel is in its forward-most position, held by the the Slide Lock.
I would suggest adding ". . . when the Barrel and Slide are locked fully forward by the force of the Recoil Spring . . ." (or "completely forward").

Technically this is covered with the statement "The Barrel is in its forward-most position, held by the Slide Lock" but I think specifying the slide has to be fully forward clarifies an issue - it is possible for the barrel to be correctly seated in the slide while the slide is still not completely forward. There's enough play in my G17c that I can move the slide back enough to release the slide lock before the barrel begins to drop.

In the Armorer's Manual under Field Inspections - Recoil Spring/Guide Rod Assembly, Glock uses the phrase "The recoil spring should be able to push the slide completely forward and fully into battery." I think if any of us performed this test and the barrel met the conditions of ". . . the breech face in the Slide fully covers the breech in the Barrel, forming a closed firing chamber" but the slide still moved when the trigger was released, we would describe it as "out of battery" (as would Glock).

I can live with the definition as is, it's only a suggestion. Thanks for coming up with it Chris!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I would suggest adding ". . . when the Barrel and Slide are locked fully forward by the force of the Recoil Spring . . ." (or "completely forward").

Technically this is covered with the statement "The Barrel is in its forward-most position, held by the Slide Lock" but I think specifying the slide has to be fully forward clarifies an issue - it is possible for the barrel to be correctly seated in the slide while the slide is still not completely forward. There's enough play in my G17c that I can move the slide back enough to release the slide lock before the barrel begins to drop.

In the Armorer's Manual under Field Inspections - Recoil Spring/Guide Rod Assembly, Glock uses the phrase "The recoil spring should be able to push the slide completely forward and fully into battery." I think if any of us performed this test and the barrel met the conditions of ". . . the breech face in the Slide fully covers the breech in the Barrel, forming a closed firing chamber" but the slide still moved when the trigger was released, we would describe it as "out of battery" (as would Glock).

I can live with the definition as is, it's only a suggestion. Thanks for coming up with it Chris!
Good suggestion, I'll edit the original. I looked in the Armorer's Manual but apparently not hard enough!

Chris
 

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Would this not apply to most, if not all, other brands ?

Full barrel to slide lock-up, is the ready to fire position, full battery.

I will side with both of the above references/descriptions.


:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Would this not apply to most, if not all, other brands ?

Full barrel to slide lock-up, is the ready to fire position, full battery.

I will side with both of the above references/descriptions.

:cool:
Yes, I agree, there's nothing unique about a Glock in this context, when compared to other striker-fired, recoil-operated pistols. The discussion about the ability of a Glock to fire out of battery (or not) made me think we ought to have a Glock-specific definition.

Chris
 

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Good suggestion, I'll edit the original. I looked in the Armorer's Manual but apparently not hard enough!

Chris
Glock has some weird new technology they used in the Armorer's manuals - things I swear I read in the manual suddenly aren't there and stuff I never saw before is. I think it's their way of keeping anyone from being a true expert :cool:
 

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Would this not apply to most, if not all, other brands ?

Full barrel to slide lock-up, is the ready to fire position, full battery.

I will side with both of the above references/descriptions.

:cool:
This is sort of where I come down on the issue. The term "in battery" simply means the gun is in such a condition as it was designed to be ready for the firing sequence. The definition given here is a very good description of what is happening when a glock is in battery, but overall the definition of the term in battery is a bit more simple and general than that.

Honestly I've used the term and discussed guns both in and out of battery for years and years and until that recent thread I had never once seen anyone who debated what the term meant. It really is a very simple concept and I'm not sure why there is so much discussion here about it. But like I was getting at in that thread, the whole thread was a result of someone (the range employees) making the kaboom more complicated than it was, and bringing in the idea of OOB discharge to a situation where it wasn't relevant. When situations are made to be unnecessarily complicated, people tend to get into the minutia of things and that's what happened here. I think everyone here already understood what OOB discharge was if we stopped and kept it simple. We just couldn't see the forest for the trees and tried to complicate it.
 

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Well, here is a definition of "Out of Battery"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-battery

Out-of-battery refers to the status of a weapon before the action has returned to the normal firing position.

The term originates from artillery, referring to a gun that fires before it has been pulled back.

In artillery guns, "out of battery" usually refers to a situation where the recoiling mass (breech and barrel) has not returned to its proper position after firing because of a failure in the recoil mechanism. Most gun carriage designs should prevent this; however, if a gun is fired out of battery, then damage to the carriage can occur, as the effectiveness of the recoil mechanism will have been compromised.

In firearms and artillery where there is an automatic loading mechanism, a condition can occur in which a live round is at least partially in the firing chamber and capable of being fired, but is not properly secured by the usual mechanism of that particular weapon. The gas pressure produced at the moment of firing can rupture the not fully supported cartridge case and can result in flame and high-pressure gas being vented at the breech of the weapon, potentially creating flying shrapnel and possibly injuring the operator.

Depending on the design, it is also possible for a semi-automatic handgun to simply not fire upon pulling the trigger when in an out-of-battery state.


So "In Battery" is the opposite of this. But we like Chris's descriptions better because...well, Chris...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Chris, of course, got it, but, how could one not "get it?" This ain't rocket science. "In battery" tells you exactly what "in battery" is. It's, of course, simply the state of a semi or fully-auto firearm at lockup.
Agreed: it isn't rocket science. I just thought the term deserved a clear definition, to make it a little brick in the wall of knowledge that we are building here. Had I found the one that Slice found on Wikipedia, I would not have put up that post.

Chris
 

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I was familiar with the info Slice brought us, I already have my stance on what is full battery/out of battery.

The thread was about firing out of battery.

After reading the OOB wiki article it should be a lot clearer what the definitions means, as we are now aware of the miniscule opportunity for a Glock to fire OOB.

(not saying it can or will)

YMMV
 

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Agreed: it isn't rocket science. I just thought the term deserved a clear definition, to make it a little brick in the wall of knowledge that we are building here. Had I found the one that Slice found on Wikipedia, I would not have put up that post.

Chris
As I said, you are correct. I have been able to dryfire a Glock slightly o.o.b., but don't know if it would have fired a round.
 

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The lastest manual also states that the pistol should go into battery with just the last 1/2" of slide travel. If not they suggest replacing the recoil spring.
 

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This is sort of where I come down on the issue. The term "in battery" simply means the gun is in such a condition as it was designed to be ready for the firing sequence. The definition given here is a very good description of what is happening when a glock is in battery, but overall the definition of the term in battery is a bit more simple and general than that.

Honestly I've used the term and discussed guns both in and out of battery for years and years and until that recent thread I had never once seen anyone who debated what the term meant. It really is a very simple concept and I'm not sure why there is so much discussion here about it. But like I was getting at in that thread, the whole thread was a result of someone (the range employees) making the kaboom more complicated than it was, and bringing in the idea of OOB discharge to a situation where it wasn't relevant. When situations are made to be unnecessarily complicated, people tend to get into the minutia of things and that's what happened here. I think everyone here already understood what OOB discharge was if we stopped and kept it simple. We just couldn't see the forest for the trees and tried to complicate it.
This has been my understanding as well. A round must be chambered, ready to fire to be in battery, at least, this is how I've always understaood.

So, if I have a full mag in place, the slide is locked forward, the trigger is armed, but no round in the chamber, the pistol is 'not' in battery.....

Ya'll, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.....
 

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I have no idea if a round is required or not so I can't address that (I suspect you're right). I will only note that in the Glock world we're frequently referring to the return to battery test and asking "did it go fully into battery?" There's no round involved so I'm not sure of the value, in this context, of a definition that includes a chambered round.
This thread started when someone in another thread said something along the line of "what do you mean . . ."
 

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In order for the pistol to "return to battery", that process of slide returning forward will chamber the next round.....therefore, how can a pistol be in battery if there is no round in the chamber to fire? It gets me dead if I have a pistol 'in battery', pull the trigger, but no round leaves the barrel. What I learned in the Army anyway...
 

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Mechanically the weapon is in battery !

It does not know or care if it has a round in it or not, it has no capacity to think or apply logic to the situation, it is either in battery condition or not.

 
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