[billt]

With this kind of "marksmanship", does it really matter?

Cops fire 84 shots at robbery suspect, hit him once: police

 

[EdF702]

Blanks?

 

[billt]

Blanks?

Might as well have been.

 

[MtStream]

Real life and death situations aren't like the range?

 

[billt]

Real life and death situations aren't like the range?

If they only connect once in 84 attempts, it doesn't look like they're spending much time at or doing either.

 

[NWGlocker]

Not being LE myself, I'd guess that training is one of the first things to take a hit when budgets are tight. More's the pity.

I'm also fairly certain the NY triggers on the Glocks are not helping with accuracy

 

[PattonWasRight]

I'm also fairly certain the NY triggers on the Glocks are not helping with accuracy

That's a really good point. Done in part to reduce liabilities. That said, I wonder what kind of liabilities they'll face for the 83 bullets that went here, there and everywhere?

 

[billt]

Don't any of these guys have to qualify every month?

 

[PattonWasRight]

Don't any of these guys have to qualify every month?

Static, artificial range fire ... no movement, etc. And I think it's more like once per quarter qualification.

 

[billt]

Look, I don't care how many excuses you want to make. "N.Y. Triggers", "Static Fire", along with all this other nonsense. Discharging 84 rounds and hitting the guy once is appalling and pathetic. These cops should be ashamed of themselves, and be reprimanded for putting the public in far more danger than the perp did with their idiotic spray and pray tactics. Perhaps they should practice with their eyes OPEN.

 

[MtStream]

Of the 52 rounds fired by 4 cops at the first scene (that would average less than a full mag each) how many went into the car the guy was hiding behind? Then 6 cops fired 32 rounds (average of 5.3rds each) at the second scene. We're not told if the guy was hiding behind anything there doesn't seem like it from the article. We're also not told the distances.

I don't think the majority of cops are good marksmen by any means, a friend is an instructor for a federal agency and I hear his insane stories about idiots with badges on the range. But when you break down the numbers and see that they averaged less than a full mag each, I don't think this is as bad as it initially sounded.

Wonder what the odds are that 1/2 those rounds came from one spray and pray guy (or gal)?

 

[billt]

Of the 52 rounds fired by 4 cops at the first scene (that would average less than a full mag each) how many went into the car the guy was hiding behind? Then 6 cops fired 32 rounds (average of 5.3rds each) at the second scene. We're not told if the guy was hiding behind anything there doesn't seem like it from the article. We're also not told the distances.

I don't think the majority of cops are good marksmen by any means, a friend is an instructor for a federal agency and I hear his insane stories about idiots with badges on the range. But when you break down the numbers and see that they averaged less than a full mag each, I don't think this is as bad as it initially sounded.

Wonder what the odds are that 1/2 those rounds came from one spray and pray guy (or gal)?

All of that may in fact be true. But it doesn't change the fact 84 rounds went downrange, and only 1 hit bad guy flesh. The fact we're incorporating 10 cops into the total, makes the whole thing look that much worse. We're dealing with 10 people who can't hit $h!t, not just one. That paints a pretty pi$$ poor average if you ask me.

 

[glocktoter]

That's a really good point. Done in part to reduce liabilities. That said, I wonder what kind of liabilities they'll face for the 83 bullets that went here, there and everywhere?

Good point, but I am sure the media will just "sweep that one under the rug".

 

[PattonWasRight]

Good point, but I am sure the media will just "sweep that one under the rug".

Truly, can you even imagine CNN or FOX having some expert on saying how NY's too firm triggers cause more misses & risk to the public than the bad guy?

 

[OHgaz]

Not being LE myself, I'd guess that training is one of the first things to take a hit when budgets are tight. More's the pity.

I'm also fairly certain the NY triggers on the Glocks are not helping with accuracy

I have no problem with accuracy using a NY1 trigger on my G22. It is actually a smoother pull, clean break and faster reset than the spring. And they don't break like springs.

 

[OHgaz]

Look, I don't care how many excuses you want to make. "N.Y. Triggers", "Static Fire", along with all this other nonsense. Discharging 84 rounds and hitting the guy once is appalling and pathetic. These cops should be ashamed of themselves, and be reprimanded for putting the public in far more danger than the perp did with their idiotic spray and pray tactics. Perhaps they should practice with their eyes OPEN.

I completely agree. They could throw the bullets and do better.

 

[BuckskinRider]

With this kind of "marksmanship", does it really matter?

Cops fire 84 shots at robbery suspect, hit him once: police

Let's see ... it was dark, robber shooting back, robber running away, cops running, injured victim in pursuit, changing ranges, chaos as to who's doing what ... was he shooting from cover.

It like to see the report on the all the shots fired. I'm more concerned about why they were shooting if they didn't have a "good" shot. Marksmanship is also a function of the conditions and opportunity.

It's easy to judge without having all the information. Being shot at tends to introduce "puckering" - which causes one to pull their shots ... a great deal.

 

[billt]

Let's see ... it was dark, robber shooting back, robber running away, cops running, injured victim in pursuit, changing ranges, chaos as to who's doing what ... was he shooting from cover.

It like to see the report on the all the shots fired. I'm more concerned about why they were shooting if they didn't have a "good" shot. Marksmanship is also a function of the conditions and opportunity.

It's easy to judge without having all the information. Being shot at tends to introduce "puckering" - which causes one to pull their shots ... a great deal.

All true. BUT...... This is their job. It is what they are trained and paid to do. 10 shots, perhaps. 20 shots? I might even buy into that. BUT 84 ROUNDS IS INEXCUSABLE. What's the next similar confrontation going to bring, 150 rounds?

 

[jonh1373]

Please, don't judge until you, as they say, "have walked a mile in their shoes". As earlier stated no one knows all the facts except those that were there. How would you like to be judged on your job performance by someone not doing your job? Time to close this one out.

 

[MtStream]

I was hanging with the friend today that I mentioned above, he's a fed and is a firearms instructor for his department, he's also recorded a perfect score at a GSSF indoor match (good shot). I asked him about this, he said that wasn't an unexpected number of rounds given the number of officers involved and that the guy was behind cover. He said it was actually a little lower than he would have expected averaging under a full mag each. The telling piece for him would be the number of rounds in the car. The assumption is a lot of the rounds were meant to suppress and the coordination of suppression between that many officers probably wasn't good. If the bullets aren't in the car then there may be another story.